Interview: Kevin Lygo, Channel 4 (Evening Standard)
By David Rowan
HE DISMISSES his critics as "the grumpy old men". Yet former executives are asking whether Channel 4 has lost its way as a public service broadcaster. Does Kevin Lygo, as they suggest, lack a strategic vision beyond chasing ratings? With Andy Duncan, a former marketer, as chief executive, and the entrepreneur Luke Johnson as chairman, it has been left to Lygo, previously at Five, to put the case for Channel 4's " distinctive" programmes. Its public service remit requires the channel to "innovate and experiment".
Why, then, are so many of its former bosses - from Sir Jeremy Isaacs to Lygo's immediate predecessor, Tim Gardam - complaining about its reliance on Big Brother and makeover shows to hook younger viewers?
If the onslaught has wounded him, Lygo, 47, is careful not to show it.
Indeed, a year after becoming Channel 4's director of television, he seems to relish the role of school troublemaker. "We're 10 per cent of people's television viewing, but we make far more than 10 per cent of the noise and column inches," he says with a mischievous smile. "The reason some grumpy old men occasionally get agitated about Channel 4 is that people care so deeply about it."
Anyone who questions what Lygo's channel is "for" is simply not watching: his " strategic vision" is spelt out, unchanged, in the station's remit and on every night's schedules.
"The 'point' of Channel 4 is as a public service broadcaster, the proper alternative to the BBC, at a time when ITV and Five are sliding away from their public service obligations," he says. "Reality TV? We brought it to you. This new formatted modern documentary? It came from Channel 4. We tend to do things first, and every broadcaster immediately copies us. We can, as a public service provider, be edgier, more controversial, more opinionated than the BBC."
Some senior independent programme-makers worry that this "edginess" is simply about ratings - and that C4 no longer has a distinct identity.
Newspaper critics point to the sex-and-reality bias in the winter schedules, the first to bear Lygo's stamp. As well as the debut of the newly acquired Simpsons, highlights include Diary of a Porn Virgin, The Curse of Debbie Does Dallas, and a reality show called Playing It Straight, in which "one beautiful girl looking for love" has to guess which of the male contestants are gay but pretending not to be.
Anthony Smith, a founding Channel 4 board member, has called the station "tawdry and repetitive".
"This look back at the glorious past just doesn't hold any water," Lygo replies with a weary sigh.
"What is missing from the 'old days' that people actually want? When Jeremy [Isaacs] was here, snooker filled hours of the schedule. Today, it's a richer, more varied channel. But we still strive to have many programmes that you feel could only be Channel 4."
Such as? "I think Green Wing, actually," he says. "I don't see anybody else attempting an hour-long hybrid comedy, between narrative and sketch. I'm not sure anyone else would have done Shameless.
Bear in mind that we must fund ourselves, so we must strive for a balance between public service and shows that will get us an audience."
What of the obsession with sex? "Channel 4 has always been obsessed with sex, because humans are obsessed with sex," Lygo says. "We're not going to do soft porn - it's about finding new ways of talking about sex which engages with an audience that isn't just there for titillation."
Still, it will not be quite so easy to ignore that sector of public opinion if the channel wins public funding to fill its projected £100 million annual funding gap, announced last week by Barry Cox, its deputy chairman. Would a publicly funded Channel 4 survive the level of scrutiny that the BBC attracts? Lygo will not be drawn on Cox's proposal, but stresses that it would mean help with transmitters rather than programming cash.
He sees very real commercial threats - from advertisers moving to new digital channels, and a new public service broadcaster proposed by Ofcom. But he is adamant that privatisation is off the agenda.
"It's anathema. Andy Duncan is a very public service-driven sort of a guy.
That's why we're going to open More 4 next year, a channel that's public service through and through." What about the proposed merger with Five?
"We're looking at a whole rang e of options to future-proof us, all sorts of alliances and strategies. It may be that we do a number of things - with the BBC, with Five. We're a long way off from doing a deal, put it like that. But though the future's tricky, the present is very strong indeed. We've just had our best year ever in terms of primetime ratings, a more upmarket and younger audience than ever."
As for Big Brother, the touchstone for many of the grumpy old men, don't expect it to end any time soon. "It's still a wonderful programme, entertaining, illuminating and revealing. Most of the criticisms are unfounded - Jeremy Isaacs had never seen a frame of it, nor had John Humphrys. It's a generational thing - like parents in the 1950s saying, 'Oh my God, you daren't show Elvis from the waist down, the girls will go mad …'" ISN'T the channel devising evermore confrontational situations in order to boost ratings? "We're not," he responds. "I'll be the first to say it got slightly ugly in there on day 21 this year. But we headed off a fight, and it was more gentle than anything you'd see on any high street on a Friday night.
And it's complete nonsense to think we're sitting here thinking of ways to get people to shag. There is absolutely no desire whatsoever to have people having sex on Big Brother."
Meanwhile, he needs to turn his £450 million budget to finding the next Friends or Sex and the City. "It's going to be tough," he admits. "But I honestly believe it's a good thing, as it forces you to make more of your own. Let's develop more, spend more, and go for it. Because when you get one that works, a Green Wing or a Peter Kay, it's just marvellous. The whole channel is lifted."
(Evening Standard, November 10, 2004)
HE DISMISSES his critics as "the grumpy old men". Yet former executives are asking whether Channel 4 has lost its way as a public service broadcaster. Does Kevin Lygo, as they suggest, lack a strategic vision beyond chasing ratings? With Andy Duncan, a former marketer, as chief executive, and the entrepreneur Luke Johnson as chairman, it has been left to Lygo, previously at Five, to put the case for Channel 4's " distinctive" programmes. Its public service remit requires the channel to "innovate and experiment".
Why, then, are so many of its former bosses - from Sir Jeremy Isaacs to Lygo's immediate predecessor, Tim Gardam - complaining about its reliance on Big Brother and makeover shows to hook younger viewers?
If the onslaught has wounded him, Lygo, 47, is careful not to show it.
Indeed, a year after becoming Channel 4's director of television, he seems to relish the role of school troublemaker. "We're 10 per cent of people's television viewing, but we make far more than 10 per cent of the noise and column inches," he says with a mischievous smile. "The reason some grumpy old men occasionally get agitated about Channel 4 is that people care so deeply about it."
Anyone who questions what Lygo's channel is "for" is simply not watching: his " strategic vision" is spelt out, unchanged, in the station's remit and on every night's schedules.
"The 'point' of Channel 4 is as a public service broadcaster, the proper alternative to the BBC, at a time when ITV and Five are sliding away from their public service obligations," he says. "Reality TV? We brought it to you. This new formatted modern documentary? It came from Channel 4. We tend to do things first, and every broadcaster immediately copies us. We can, as a public service provider, be edgier, more controversial, more opinionated than the BBC."
Some senior independent programme-makers worry that this "edginess" is simply about ratings - and that C4 no longer has a distinct identity.
Newspaper critics point to the sex-and-reality bias in the winter schedules, the first to bear Lygo's stamp. As well as the debut of the newly acquired Simpsons, highlights include Diary of a Porn Virgin, The Curse of Debbie Does Dallas, and a reality show called Playing It Straight, in which "one beautiful girl looking for love" has to guess which of the male contestants are gay but pretending not to be.
Anthony Smith, a founding Channel 4 board member, has called the station "tawdry and repetitive".
"This look back at the glorious past just doesn't hold any water," Lygo replies with a weary sigh.
"What is missing from the 'old days' that people actually want? When Jeremy [Isaacs] was here, snooker filled hours of the schedule. Today, it's a richer, more varied channel. But we still strive to have many programmes that you feel could only be Channel 4."
Such as? "I think Green Wing, actually," he says. "I don't see anybody else attempting an hour-long hybrid comedy, between narrative and sketch. I'm not sure anyone else would have done Shameless.
Bear in mind that we must fund ourselves, so we must strive for a balance between public service and shows that will get us an audience."
What of the obsession with sex? "Channel 4 has always been obsessed with sex, because humans are obsessed with sex," Lygo says. "We're not going to do soft porn - it's about finding new ways of talking about sex which engages with an audience that isn't just there for titillation."
Still, it will not be quite so easy to ignore that sector of public opinion if the channel wins public funding to fill its projected £100 million annual funding gap, announced last week by Barry Cox, its deputy chairman. Would a publicly funded Channel 4 survive the level of scrutiny that the BBC attracts? Lygo will not be drawn on Cox's proposal, but stresses that it would mean help with transmitters rather than programming cash.
He sees very real commercial threats - from advertisers moving to new digital channels, and a new public service broadcaster proposed by Ofcom. But he is adamant that privatisation is off the agenda.
"It's anathema. Andy Duncan is a very public service-driven sort of a guy.
That's why we're going to open More 4 next year, a channel that's public service through and through." What about the proposed merger with Five?
"We're looking at a whole rang e of options to future-proof us, all sorts of alliances and strategies. It may be that we do a number of things - with the BBC, with Five. We're a long way off from doing a deal, put it like that. But though the future's tricky, the present is very strong indeed. We've just had our best year ever in terms of primetime ratings, a more upmarket and younger audience than ever."
As for Big Brother, the touchstone for many of the grumpy old men, don't expect it to end any time soon. "It's still a wonderful programme, entertaining, illuminating and revealing. Most of the criticisms are unfounded - Jeremy Isaacs had never seen a frame of it, nor had John Humphrys. It's a generational thing - like parents in the 1950s saying, 'Oh my God, you daren't show Elvis from the waist down, the girls will go mad …'" ISN'T the channel devising evermore confrontational situations in order to boost ratings? "We're not," he responds. "I'll be the first to say it got slightly ugly in there on day 21 this year. But we headed off a fight, and it was more gentle than anything you'd see on any high street on a Friday night.
And it's complete nonsense to think we're sitting here thinking of ways to get people to shag. There is absolutely no desire whatsoever to have people having sex on Big Brother."
Meanwhile, he needs to turn his £450 million budget to finding the next Friends or Sex and the City. "It's going to be tough," he admits. "But I honestly believe it's a good thing, as it forces you to make more of your own. Let's develop more, spend more, and go for it. Because when you get one that works, a Green Wing or a Peter Kay, it's just marvellous. The whole channel is lifted."
(Evening Standard, November 10, 2004)
posted by David Rowan at Wednesday, November 10, 2004
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