Interview: Lesley Douglas, BBC Radio 2 (Evening Standard)
By David Rowan
LESLEY Douglas has two good reasons to celebrate this week. Radio 2, the station she has run since January 2004, again trounced its rivals in the latest quarterly ratings, drawing 13.3 million listeners and a remarkable 16.5 per cent audience share. Then, at Monday's Sony Awards, it was named UK Station of the Year for its "range, richness and quality", on top of separate awards for presenters Jeremy Vine and Steve Wright. Commercial stations might be struggling with ever-tougher market conditions, but for now, Radio 2 seems unstoppable.
But is it a level playing field? This week, a number of commercial rivals grumbled to the Standard that Radio 2's success continues to be boosted by certain "unfair advantages". The executives we spoke to were happy to acknowledge the appeal of stars such as Terry Wogan, Steve Wright and Johnnie Walker, whose personal audiences continue to leap ahead. The problem, as they described it, has more to do with the station's deliberate targeting of their own younger audiences - with all the advantages of free BBC cross promotion and high presenters' salaries, and far too few of the " public service" commitments intended to make the licence-funded stations distinct.
Sipping tea in the George Hotel's 15th-floor bar, looking down over Broadcasting House, Douglas, 41, a mother of two, has a simpler explanation for her station's success.
"We've got the best line-up of presenters anywhere in any medium, who, like the production teams, absolutely understand the audience," she says. "We've got presenters with life experience and, touch wood, who love their jobs, and it sounds like that. It's a happy station."
A Radio 2 veteran of 15 years, she worked with Jim Moir, her predecessor, to rejuvenate its schedules by bringing in "talent" such as Vine, Jonathan Ross and, more recently, Dermot O'Leary and Chris Evans.
There never was a battle-plan, she insists: simply a feeling that "evolution" needed a kick-start, with presenters forced to "start thinking again about who they're talking to". And while she has hired celebrity presenters - from Mariella Frostrup to Brad Pitt - her main concern has been to maintain the breadth of output, from comedy to religion, "so that all parts of the network sound relevant to all parts of the audience".
Was the hiring of so many TV personalities a deliberate ratingsboosting strategy? "No," she replies, "I don't know what a 'celebrity' is, but it's all about the ability to communicate. Jonathan Ross is one of the country's greatest broadcasters, as is Wogan, and they happen to work on TV too. Why shouldn't they? We're looking for presenters who have a personality and intelligence."
The strategy has certainly brought an outstanding series of Rajars. But Douglas, whose voluble conversation is peppered with enthusiastic references to her stars, insists that ratings are not her priority. "I don't think we've ever been obsessed by the numbers," she says. "Is it nice when we get the Rajars we've just had? Yes. But what gives me the biggest buzz is the fantastic performance Jeremy Vine gave over the election campaign, or tuning in to Terry Wogan and hearing him use a certain turn of phrase."
Other broadcasters question whether a licence-funded broadcaster should be chasing ratings. Commercial channels are facing tough financial pressures: Chrysalis and GCap Media, formed from the merger of GWR and Capital Radio, both warned yesterday of a "difficult" market.
In a submission last year to the BBC Charter Review, Chrysalis attacked Radio 2's programming strategy for supposedly breaching its public service obligations. "Radio 2 has shifted significantly away from being an easy listening service for listeners over 50, to being a contemporary pop music station, targeting commercial radio's core target demographic of 25-54s," it stated. "Programmes such as Terry Wogan's Breakfast Show, or Steve Wright in the Afternoon, are absolutely indistinguishable from equivalent shows on commercial stations."
Was Douglas "deliberately and actively" scheduling against the commercial stations, as they claimed? "Radio 2 is programmed as it always has been," she answers. "The daytime schedule has not changed significantly for 15 years."
A frequent criticism is that the "specialist" music Radio 2 is obliged to broadcast is shifted to the margins. "That's not true," Douglas retorts. "The diversity and range of programming is absolute in daytime. Virtually every day there is a live-music session. You hear folk, country, jazz in all the daytime output, you hear musical theatre in Sarah Kennedy's show. And Katie Melua would say she'd have never had last year's success had Wogan not taken risks and played her."
She is equally dismissive of claims that BBC cross-promotion unfairly boosts ratings. "It's a very old debate," she says. "I don't think anyone would dispute that an effective use of the BBC's resources is to talk about the BBC's programmes. What are we meant to do?"
Meanwhile, she has other concerns. "My priority is to keep Terry happy on Radio 2, that's what I think about." Ah, the rumoured departure, at some unspecified date, of the 8.1-million-listener breakfast presenter. But Douglas will cast no light.
"I have no idea who the next breakfast show presenter should be, as I'm happy with the one I've got," she says firmly. "He's in an ongoing contract, and there are no discussions planned in the near future."
When he does go, if Brad Pitt proves unavailable, would Chris Tarrant be a candidate? "Chris Tarrant is one of the greatest radio presenters I've ever heard, one of those few talents who can absolutely manipulate radio," she replies. Well, she could use this page to invite him to apply … "But I haven't got anywhere to put anyone!" she answers. "There are a lot of presenters I really rate, but with Radio 2 as it is - when they're coming in to listen and we're winning awards - you'd unpick that at your peril. But people like Pete and Geoff at Virgin are genuinely talented broadcasters. And Christian O'Connell deserves the Sony Awards he's got, he's exceptional. But I have a line-up I'm really happy with."
WHICH leads to a final gripe from the commercial channels. With its vast budget, Radio 2 stands accused of "artificially inflating" the cost of attracting quality presenters.
"If you ask the talent why they're here, it's because they want to be," she replies. "Most could probably earn more elsewhere, but they come to Radio 2 for the creativity, to pursue their passions. I mean, it's a station different enough and broad enough to allow Mark Lamarr to sit alongside David Jacobs."
She reflects for a moment. " Actually, I think it's not just Radio 2 that's in rude health, but radio in general. Just listen to what's coming out of the speakers - to a lot of talent, radio has become sexy."
(Evening Standard, May 11 2005)
LESLEY Douglas has two good reasons to celebrate this week. Radio 2, the station she has run since January 2004, again trounced its rivals in the latest quarterly ratings, drawing 13.3 million listeners and a remarkable 16.5 per cent audience share. Then, at Monday's Sony Awards, it was named UK Station of the Year for its "range, richness and quality", on top of separate awards for presenters Jeremy Vine and Steve Wright. Commercial stations might be struggling with ever-tougher market conditions, but for now, Radio 2 seems unstoppable.
But is it a level playing field? This week, a number of commercial rivals grumbled to the Standard that Radio 2's success continues to be boosted by certain "unfair advantages". The executives we spoke to were happy to acknowledge the appeal of stars such as Terry Wogan, Steve Wright and Johnnie Walker, whose personal audiences continue to leap ahead. The problem, as they described it, has more to do with the station's deliberate targeting of their own younger audiences - with all the advantages of free BBC cross promotion and high presenters' salaries, and far too few of the " public service" commitments intended to make the licence-funded stations distinct.
Sipping tea in the George Hotel's 15th-floor bar, looking down over Broadcasting House, Douglas, 41, a mother of two, has a simpler explanation for her station's success.
"We've got the best line-up of presenters anywhere in any medium, who, like the production teams, absolutely understand the audience," she says. "We've got presenters with life experience and, touch wood, who love their jobs, and it sounds like that. It's a happy station."
A Radio 2 veteran of 15 years, she worked with Jim Moir, her predecessor, to rejuvenate its schedules by bringing in "talent" such as Vine, Jonathan Ross and, more recently, Dermot O'Leary and Chris Evans.
There never was a battle-plan, she insists: simply a feeling that "evolution" needed a kick-start, with presenters forced to "start thinking again about who they're talking to". And while she has hired celebrity presenters - from Mariella Frostrup to Brad Pitt - her main concern has been to maintain the breadth of output, from comedy to religion, "so that all parts of the network sound relevant to all parts of the audience".
Was the hiring of so many TV personalities a deliberate ratingsboosting strategy? "No," she replies, "I don't know what a 'celebrity' is, but it's all about the ability to communicate. Jonathan Ross is one of the country's greatest broadcasters, as is Wogan, and they happen to work on TV too. Why shouldn't they? We're looking for presenters who have a personality and intelligence."
The strategy has certainly brought an outstanding series of Rajars. But Douglas, whose voluble conversation is peppered with enthusiastic references to her stars, insists that ratings are not her priority. "I don't think we've ever been obsessed by the numbers," she says. "Is it nice when we get the Rajars we've just had? Yes. But what gives me the biggest buzz is the fantastic performance Jeremy Vine gave over the election campaign, or tuning in to Terry Wogan and hearing him use a certain turn of phrase."
Other broadcasters question whether a licence-funded broadcaster should be chasing ratings. Commercial channels are facing tough financial pressures: Chrysalis and GCap Media, formed from the merger of GWR and Capital Radio, both warned yesterday of a "difficult" market.
In a submission last year to the BBC Charter Review, Chrysalis attacked Radio 2's programming strategy for supposedly breaching its public service obligations. "Radio 2 has shifted significantly away from being an easy listening service for listeners over 50, to being a contemporary pop music station, targeting commercial radio's core target demographic of 25-54s," it stated. "Programmes such as Terry Wogan's Breakfast Show, or Steve Wright in the Afternoon, are absolutely indistinguishable from equivalent shows on commercial stations."
Was Douglas "deliberately and actively" scheduling against the commercial stations, as they claimed? "Radio 2 is programmed as it always has been," she answers. "The daytime schedule has not changed significantly for 15 years."
A frequent criticism is that the "specialist" music Radio 2 is obliged to broadcast is shifted to the margins. "That's not true," Douglas retorts. "The diversity and range of programming is absolute in daytime. Virtually every day there is a live-music session. You hear folk, country, jazz in all the daytime output, you hear musical theatre in Sarah Kennedy's show. And Katie Melua would say she'd have never had last year's success had Wogan not taken risks and played her."
She is equally dismissive of claims that BBC cross-promotion unfairly boosts ratings. "It's a very old debate," she says. "I don't think anyone would dispute that an effective use of the BBC's resources is to talk about the BBC's programmes. What are we meant to do?"
Meanwhile, she has other concerns. "My priority is to keep Terry happy on Radio 2, that's what I think about." Ah, the rumoured departure, at some unspecified date, of the 8.1-million-listener breakfast presenter. But Douglas will cast no light.
"I have no idea who the next breakfast show presenter should be, as I'm happy with the one I've got," she says firmly. "He's in an ongoing contract, and there are no discussions planned in the near future."
When he does go, if Brad Pitt proves unavailable, would Chris Tarrant be a candidate? "Chris Tarrant is one of the greatest radio presenters I've ever heard, one of those few talents who can absolutely manipulate radio," she replies. Well, she could use this page to invite him to apply … "But I haven't got anywhere to put anyone!" she answers. "There are a lot of presenters I really rate, but with Radio 2 as it is - when they're coming in to listen and we're winning awards - you'd unpick that at your peril. But people like Pete and Geoff at Virgin are genuinely talented broadcasters. And Christian O'Connell deserves the Sony Awards he's got, he's exceptional. But I have a line-up I'm really happy with."
WHICH leads to a final gripe from the commercial channels. With its vast budget, Radio 2 stands accused of "artificially inflating" the cost of attracting quality presenters.
"If you ask the talent why they're here, it's because they want to be," she replies. "Most could probably earn more elsewhere, but they come to Radio 2 for the creativity, to pursue their passions. I mean, it's a station different enough and broad enough to allow Mark Lamarr to sit alongside David Jacobs."
She reflects for a moment. " Actually, I think it's not just Radio 2 that's in rude health, but radio in general. Just listen to what's coming out of the speakers - to a lot of talent, radio has become sexy."
(Evening Standard, May 11 2005)
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