Interview: Dominic Crossley-Holland, ITV (Evening Standard)
IT was the last bastion of the long, set-piece interview, the old-school, Sunday lunchtime political slot that reinforced ITV's "serious" credentials long after the BBC dropped On the Record. But yesterday, as predicted by the Evening Standard, the network formally axed the Jonathan Dimbleby programme. It will be replaced at the end of the year by a "less formal" and more "fun" successor.
When On the Record was dropped three years ago for Jeremy Vine's The Politics Show, Dimbleby could barely contain his contempt. "I ought to rejoice in the fact that our principal rival has died, but I don't," he complained in The Times. "The long forensic interview really matters." This time around, Dimbleby has so far kept his counsel. But others in the industry are already mumbling that ratings-obsessed commissioners may once again be dumbing down the schedules.
Dominic Crossley-Holland, the commissioner in question, is keen to set the record straight. "I know it would be handy to write 'ITV dumps the long political interview', but this is not the obituary for the formal one-to-one," the 38-year-old head of current affairs, religions and arts explains in ITV's Gray's Inn Road offices. "The new programme will have at its heart the ability to do the long-format interview, which is something that ITV and ITN pioneered. It's just that it may not always be appropriate that we give someone 20 minutes or half an hour of airtime.
"I'm not trying to dumb down or ditch the tradition, but I do want a far brighter, far more engaging programme, with a lot more wit and attitude."
Dimbleby may well continue as a presenter: he and the channel are in talks, and Crossley-Holland says the new format will owe a certain amount to Dimbleby's Radio 4 programme Any Questions. "No one's done anything wrong, they've done valiant job, we just want a fresh approach," he says. "With a four per cent audience share in multichannel homes, we can't afford to stand still. I need to be proactive."
It is Crossley-Holland's boldest move since taking the job three months ago, having previously run the ITV News channel. An ITN lifer - he joined from York University, and spent 17 years there before jumping to ITV - he has put the show out to tender, with the instruction that it must be a "high impact" programme whose guests "set the agenda and make news". With a new hour-long, 10.30am slot, it will use a panel of journalists working with a big-name presenter to "hold our decision-makers to account".
"We want to attract a range of newsmakers and politicians, and have a bit more fun. Somehow, 'fun' is a dirty word. For 'fun', for 'bright and breezy', people read 'dumbed down'. No, actually - it's about making it more knowing, more engaging and relevant."
But won't this be yet another doomed attempt to sell politics to "youth"? "I don't think there is a magic wand for attracting the youth audience," Crossley-Holland reflects. "Look at the election, when only around 21 per cent of 18- to 34-year-olds voted. It's a question of how you define politics. Do the under-thirties care about student loans? Do they care about congestion charging, transport policy, the environment? Yes, yes, yes. It's like the notion that 'religious broadcasting' somehow has to be a switch-off."
Religion is another area facing a shake-up. Shortly before he joined, ITV negotiated with Ofcom a radical cut in its broadcast obligations in this field. Initially, Christian groups were furious that religion would be integrated into soaps and documentaries rather than treated as a discrete genre. But Crossley-Holland - himself a Christian - rejects boxed-in genres as "a construct of 1970s". As a "modern" alternative, he commissioned Rageh Omaar to travel to the tsunami region and investigate how people from four faiths had been affected. This Christmas, Omaar will visit people touched by the London bombings to examine how their "personal value systems" had coped. Without such topicality, Crossley-Holland insists, ITV will fail in its remaining public-service obligations.
"I don't claim that somehow I can reinvent public-service programming," he says. "But it is under greater siege than ever before, because of the advent of multichannel and the analogue switch-off that's on the horizon. And unless we apply imaginative, ambitious programming skills here, these sorts of programmes are in danger of dying out." In a decade, he points out, there will be no mandated requirement for ITV to produce what we've grown up to know as public-service programming.
John Birt, in his MacTaggart lecture last Friday, argued that ITV was already "clinging on to the public-service tradition by its fingertips". Crossley-Holland found Birt's analysis rather pointless. "He didn't identify any solution, nor any funding model to achieve it, which seems a bit invidious," he says. "Doesn't that slightly negate most of the principles of Birtism?"
But isn't all his talk of public-service broadcasting simply a fig-leaf on the corporate monolith that is ITV plc? Surely the shareholders have little interest in backing low-rated current affairs or religion when their money could be better invested in soaps? "If there was a moment where this monolith was going to act, it would have been when I arrived, when the old political programme was out of contract," he replies. "Not only has that been rejected, but the budget has been increased."
The investments are paying off commercially, too, he claims. "Just look at Tonight with Trevor McDonald. We're producing 92 episodes in peak time, and it gets ratings - [BBC1's] Real Story, which has just 32 episodes, gets about two-thirds of the ratings. They've now remodelled it on Tonight. The BBC governors's own report this year said BBC current affairs had failed to achieve the accessibility and high impact of ITV. And we don't have £3 billion from the licence fee." And no, he says, despite reports, Sir Trevor is not planning to leave.
Next in line for a shake-up is the arts schedule. You might think that The South Bank Show is ITV's arts schedule - and, indeed, an imminent announcement will secure its future. But Crossley-Holland, from a family of poets, composers and artists, has ambitious plans. The channel "missed a trick" by letting Richard & Judy dominate coverage of popular literature. "I'd like to do a bit more literature," says Crossley-Holland. That will begin with a major series from Melvyn Bragg on British books that changed the world.
For the moment Crossley-Holland seems to have a free hand. But as his channel controller, Nigel Pickard, found to his cost this summer, the pressure ratchets up if programmes fail to deliver. ITV, for all its public-service traditions, is now fighting for its place in an ever more competitive marketplace.
And even arts, religion and current affairs are going to be judged on the audiences they deliver.
(Evening Standard, August 31 2005)
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